Tips and tricks for learning a large set list

[Bill McCloskey]

So, at 71, I finally joined a band as their steel guitarist. It is just a bunch of amateur guys about my age and we get together once a week at the singers house and practice and we have our first gig at a local bar at the end of May.

It is a Neil Young tribute band and there are 35 songs in the set list. The leader doesn't really have charts. Just some scribled chords, sometimes just lyrics and no chords and while i'm familiar with Neil young, there are quite a few of these songs that I never heard and some have some pretty strange changes. I've going through them one by one, listening to the original recordings, looking up the chord charts where I can find them, converting them into nashville numbers and I have them on my Ipad. I made the mistake of ONLY having them in nashville numbers and i realized I wasn't as good with nashville numbers as I thought, so in a rehersal situation, I was having some trouble translating the numbers into chords. And I'm far from memorising the songs I do currently have down: around 9 of the 35.

Any tips and tricks for learning a large set list in the shortest amount of time, especially when there aren't nice charts already made and you are building them from scratch. This morning it took me all morning just to record all the songs in the set list from the original songs (thank you youtube), but the task ahead seems daunting.

[Doug Taylor]

A couple years ago I did an upright bass gig of the theater production of Always Patsy Cline.

I had 28 songs to learn in 30 days. I learned one song a day and spent however long it took and then I played each song every day as a set along with the new one I was learning,! By the end I was spending 2 or 3 hours a day!

It turned out fine and by showtime I was as ready as I was capable of being,

[Howard Parker]

When necessary I have found that the act of _hand writing_ a chart allows me to visualize a tune or arrangement.

If the challenge is a single phrase or solo cue I find that a cryptic note on the setlist often is enough to clue me in.

I do not perform with charts/device in front of me as it obscures the audience "visual" aspect of performance.

ymmv

hp

[Tucker Jackson]

Hi, Bill.

You mentioned not being great with traslating Nasvhille Numbers to the fretboard. I think you would be well-served to spend an hour and memorize where the chords are and think of them in terms of being clustered in a pocket around where the "I chord" is.

Example: Key of G. All chords are played at the 3rd fret, except for the V chord (which is in the 5th fret) and the vii diministhed (fret 1):

I Major = no-pedals G-chord (3rd fret) G
ii minor = BC pedals Am
iii minor = E-lower knee Bm
IV Major = AB pedals C
V Major = AB (slide up to 5th fret) D
vi minor = A-Pedal (slide back to 3rd fret) Em
vii dim = F-lever (slide back to 1st fret) F#dim

Sound familiar? The first five chords are, "Once upon a time, you dressed so fine... threw the bums a dime, in your prime, didn't you?"

The V chord is often a dominant 7th. In that case you could play all but the last chord in the same fret, using B-pedal and the E-lower lever (D7 in Fret 3).

[Bill McCloskey]

"You mentioned not being great with traslating Nasvhille Numbers to the fretboard. I think you would be well-served to spend an hour and memorize where the chords are and think of them in terms of being clustered in a pocket around where the "I chord" is.

Already doing this but sometimes what is easy at home isn't so easy with the pressure of playing with others. I know it is practice. and I'm getting better

[Tucker Jackson]

Got it, Bill. It's a memorization thing. When I was getting my feet wet, early in my practice sessions I would just play through those 7 chords, in order to imprint where the numbers lay. After getting over that intial hump, it made finding chords a snap. About 90% of the time I'm playing, I'm thinking numbers... leading me to the 'mechanical' moves to make. It frees up mental bandwidth to concentrate on the other aspects of playing.

I'll post the rest of this info for the sake of newbies who are just trying to figure this stuff out.

Once you've got the above chord progression down in the no-pedals pocket, thinking of the mechanical moves that match a number in the chart, here's the same set of chords, but organized and grouped in pedals-down pocket.

If you play through these positions in order, as if it's a song, note that unlike the no-pedals pocket listed in the prior post, this one has you moving the bar up or down 2 frets each time you move to the next chord.

Example in the Key of G
I Major = AB pedals-down (10th fret) G
ii minor = A-pedal (8th fret) Am
iii minor = A-pedal (10th) Bm
IV Major = no-pedals (8th) C
V Major = no-pedals (10th) D
vi minor = E-Lower knee (8th) - or use it’s "twin," BC pedal (stay 10th fret) Em
vii dim = F-lever (10th)

Hint: the 6 chord mentions using what I call the "twin." Anywhere you can get a minor chord with BC, you can get the same chord 2 frets back with the E-lower lever. If you play those two positions and let the strings ring, it can be a lick.. but it also reinforces in your mind that you can easily substitute one for the other. They are twins.

Therefore, in the first post of the no-pedals pocket, on that 2m chord... instead of staying in the current fret and hitting BC, you could play the "twin" by drop back 2 frets and using the E-lower lever. I actually use that position of the 2m chord more often than BC when I'm in that region of the fretboard.

[Tucker Jackson]

Another tip for charting:

Set the playback of the recording to double-speed. A lot of Neil Young songs have a simple progression. And a lot of the tempos are agressively slow.

You might have to short-hand some of the charts and just say something like, "Verse: 1-4-5" or "6m-4-1," rather than writing out each and every change. You would have trust that when performing, you would feel the changes rather than 100% know them. You would have to feel when the chorus was coming rather than know it, etc. Fake it till you make it.

And that is easier if you have the songs already in your ear. I would put your playlist on a loop while you're driving or moving around the house.

Also, the steel can pull back and lay out when you get to a section you're unsure of. There aren't that many steel parts in those songs, and it's only the hits that you really need to nail perfectly. I would start with those.

[Bill McCloskey]

Thanks Tucker, great tips everyone.

[Rich Ertelt]

For learning, repetition is the key. Don't just go through a song once, do it a bunch of times, over and over. Then move on, but hit it at least once every day or so, while learning other songs. If it has an issue, do it a couple more times. If not move on. But don't do it once and then not touch it for a week.

I'm also doing a thing right now where I have to read charts. I've read charts a lot on guitar, but on steel, it is way harder. I don't have to look at the neck much on guitar, not so on steel. So I hand wrote my charts. Ipad would be too small. I wrote them in dark pen but also used a red marker to mark out things things like repeats or whatever, so when I look up at the chart I can find them.

[Bill McCloskey]

You are right about that Rich. I felt lost last rehearsal because I hadn't practiced enough during the week and got lost. It is quite a learning experience. The good news is my playing has improved tremendously. As jazz guitarist Jimmy Bruno says

"It is repetation. Play it until you know it and don't make mistakes. is that so fing HaRD!!"

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/REIVA26z8VA

[Dave Mudgett]

I periodically have to play large set lists of material I don't know with very little notice. Frequently, there's no time to play them over and over before getting together. Sometimes I get no time to play them at all. So I have to prepare something written. Of course, if it's original stuff, then unless they send something (or a reference to something) with structure/chord information (written or audio), I just have to wing it.

Assuming I'm sent something with structure/chord info, I make a very terse number chart. I almost always make my own charts - too many charts I get are unclear or wrong in important ways. I just type chord numbers into a .doc file (usually LibreOffice) using the symbol | to demarcate bars. I keep track of key (if they tell me), time sig, feel, kickoffs, solos, and short notes for anything that isn't obvious. For a band, I'll put all the charts into a single document, alphabetized by title. If I don't have to worry about lyrics, I can get quite a few songs on one page. Make a pdf out of it, and copy to an Android pad that attaches (via pad holder) relatively unobtrusively on the right rear leg of my pedal steel, or if I'm just playing guitar, to a mic stand. So that keeps me from going completely off the rails if I can't properly prepare. Number (rather than chord) charts are essential if the keys are not set in stone. And for guitar or steel, I personally find number charts more useful either way. It is important to completely grok the relationship between the numbers and the actual positions/chords/inversions/etc. available on the guitar. I think that is more a function of just playing and developing an instinctive feel for that, and that's a matter of playing a lot of different songs in a lot of different keys and making those associations in the brain.

As far as learning the songs goes - the mere process of writing the number charts does help start to internalize the tune, and then listening/playing reinforces that. Of course, repetition is the key to really internalizing stuff. If I have time before a rehearsal/gig, I'll try to listen/play with the number charts in front of me as often as possible to help make the association between the performance and the chart. But it doesn't always work out that way. So if I have a cold rehearsal or gig, then the pure fear and panic of having to perform the songs under pressure without screwing up is a real good motivator, LOL. It requires a LOT of concentration for me to handle even a charted gig cold. But if I can get to do a bunch of rehearsals and gigs with the set list, it seems that things smooth out fairly quickly.

Of course, all this assumes that the tunes are not real complex, which is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish. But a bunch of Neil Young songs that you probably basically know anyway - should be doable. I personally wouldn't sweat it too much - just prepare as best you can and let repetition during rehearsals fill in the holes.

A typical rig for a pedal steel + guitar gig. The Android pad really makes this much more tolerable than the God-awful piles of written charts on a music stand, etc. Once I've gone through rehearsals/gigs several times, I only rarely glance at the charts.

[Bill McCloskey]

Dave, I just got a new app for Nashville numbers. Nice thing is I can switch between the numbers and the chords with a click. It is actually pretty good.

[Jim Pollard]

So what is that app? I'm always looking for this kind of thing

[Dale Rottacker]

Tucker you should maybe be a teacher, or maybe you already are. Your explanations of where things are by the numbers are both cogent and visual.

50 odd years of playing out on a lonely desert island and no other steel players to my knowledge, I never learned to think in numbers, though I know how they work. I started with pedals up and when I pushed AB down the lights turned on and I was on my way. I'd been an "ear" playing, for better or worse, since I started playing music on an accordion when I was 5-6. Then some guitar and piano so I had a "natural" ear for music, without any real understanding of how it was put together.

I play through ALL those things you mentioned but rarely think about what the chord is, or what number is it relative to the 1, but rather more instinctively or by feel, hear the position, sometimes even correctly . At some level in the spaghetti that resides in my head that knowledge must exist, I'm just not always conscious of it in real time, and would have to stop to actually articulate what's actually going on.

[Bill McCloskey]

So what is that app? I'm always looking for this kind of thing

It is just called "Nashville Numbers"

[Frank Freniere]

My 2 cents from the peanut gallery:

Until the songs are muscle-memoried I use these index cards propped up in my keyhead. A music stand is just one more piece of gear to schlep to the gig and easy to leave behind at the end of the night. I also share these cards with the band so that that we're literally on the same page with regards to chords.

Drawbacks are when the singer keeps switching keys; and the cards can easily get out of order in the course of the gig.

IMG_4369.jpg

PS did we lose the picture rotation function?

[Dave Grafe]

I took a tip from Doug Jones and made a stack of cards that can set in the tuner heads with keys, chords, intro/solo yes or no, and a space for any melodic figures I need to provide. Not a lot of detail but just enough to prompt my flailing memory in the heat of battle, all right there by my left hand. Often as not I find the act of sorting and writing these details is enough for my memory to retain them but it's great to have backup.

[Rich Ertelt]

You are right about that Rich. I felt lost last rehearsal because I hadn't practiced enough during the week and got lost. It is quite a learning experience. The good news is my playing has improved tremendously. As jazz guitarist Jimmy Bruno says

"It is repetation. Play it until you know it and don't make mistakes. is that so fing HaRD!!"

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/REIVA26z8VA

There is an old saying.
Amateurs practice til they get it right. Pros practice til they can't get it wrong.

It really is that, it has to get to the point where you don't think about the mechanics, and just what you want it to sound like. I have found no other way to do that than just repetition.

It's funny, I've been playing guitar more than half a century, I'm way past thinking about what I'm playing physically, but on steel, really digging in the last couple years. Because of all the things - intonation, vibration, pedals, picking, blocking, yada yada, I am working on, and struggling with that right now. I was just working on some stuff, going over and over it til it was more "play the sound in my head" instead of thinking I need to do this or that. A work in progress. It's funny having to get into the physical aspects of an instrument again.

And what holds true for playing holds true for playing songs. I've never found a substitute for putting in the time.

[Rich Ertelt]

The Android pad really makes this much more tolerable than the God-awful piles of written charts on a music stand, etc.

Question. What andriod pad are you using? I have an old iPad, using onsong, for words, for when I get into situations where I have to sing songs out of a pretty big reserve, so haven't sang in ages. That is when I'm fronting (usually a blues band).

I was thinking about using the ipad for charts, but besides the fact it is old, and in rough shape, it really is kind of a small screen. I'm working on a project now where I'm using charts. A pad would be way better but I'd need to be able to read it, so have been looking.

[Chris Brooks]

I recently moved to a 12.4" tablet (Samsung, cheaper than Apple stuff) and dowloaded MobileSheets. Then I spent a week inputting (either using the camera or a previously-made Pdf) into the app. But that assumes you have already made charts to be inputted.

Like Dave G and Frank F, I have relied heretofore on index cards: but get the 5 x 8 cards. The small standard index cards are just too small. A 5 x 8 card can be placed on your tuning keys and is not visually obtrusive.

And I'll reinforce the advice to get the number system up to speed!

[Dave Mudgett]

I used to sometimes use 3x5 or 5x8 cards in the keyhead with steel. Works for my simple charts. But I way prefer the Android tablet.

The Android pad really makes this much more tolerable than the God-awful piles of written charts on a music stand, etc.

Question. What andriod pad are you using? I have an old iPad, using onsong, for words, for when I get into situations where I have to sing songs out of a pretty big reserve, so haven't sang in ages. That is when I'm fronting (usually a blues band).

I'm using a circa 2018/19 Samsung Galaxy Tab A that I picked up at salvage a couple of years ago for $45. The tablet is about 6.5" x 9.5", with a roughly 6" x 8" visible screen. I find it plenty large for me, even for lyrics when I'm singing, I also periodically front a band on guitar. I was using a pretty small Amazon Fire tablet for a couple of years - I could see it but this is a lot better. I can almost always find a way to cram all the lyrics/chords for a song onto one page.

I was thinking about using the ipad for charts, but besides the fact it is old, and in rough shape, it really is kind of a small screen. I'm working on a project now where I'm using charts. A pad would be way better but I'd need to be able to read it, so have been looking.

A friend gave me an old iPad with a small screen, and some type of chart software that will transpose or convert to numbers, may have been onsong. Same deal - old, small screen, have to replace the battery. My biggest issue is that typing stuff into that software on a tablet is a total PITA. I guess if one is downloading charts, it might be reasonable. But I have found it faster and better to just type my own very terse and simple charts into the word processor on a real computer, create the PDF(s), and copy to the tablet.

[Marshall Woodall]

All great suggestions. I would also recommend "ireal Pro" if you are using an apple device to reference. You can quickly build your own chord charts that look great, are transposable, easily searched and readily made into set lists. I agree with everyone else about the mere act of making a mental translation to paper or electronic device as the key to committing things to memory.

[Bobby Martin]

Proud of my caveman status, I've been using the white-face cat food tub box separators for set lists,song keys and tricky chord changes printed with a sharpie in lettering just big enough for other bandmates to see for twenty years. 6-7 of the cards stand up well between the Grover tuners on my Buds and Show-Pro. I have stacks of 'em saved from the last ten or so bands for future reference. If possible, convince lead singers to try the original key of recordings, makes it much easier on us steelers. Stick with original song format or simply go verse/chorus method and make eye contact to avoid confusion. For a famous "standard" like Together Again it's pedal steel only! Stand your ground and make that Tele player strum chords. Plenty of other examples where we "steel" the show for the entire song.

[Phillip Hermans]

My 2 cents from the peanut gallery:

Until the songs are muscle-memoried I use these index cards propped up in my keyhead. A music stand is just one more piece of gear to schlep to the gig and easy to leave behind at the end of the night. I also share these cards with the band so that that we're literally on the same page with regards to chords.

Drawbacks are when the singer keeps switching keys; and the cards can easily get out of order in the course of the gig.
IMG_4369.jpg


PS did we lose the picture rotation function?

I have also taken to making index cards for tunes. I try to write in BIG LETTERS probably in Sharpie, sometimes with a highlighter to emphasize things... it can be dark on stage!

As far as getting out of order, yes that happens a lot. One solution I have yet to try is to punch holes in the cards and put a key ring through them so you can easily flip and keep them in order...

[Brooks Montgomery]

Tucker, your exercises above, about working all chords around the G fret, and working all chords around ‘AB down’ at 10th fret, have really helped me remember my minor chords (and various pedals and levers).

When I step away from pedal for several weeks and come back, it is always the minor chord positions and their relationships that has me straining the old brain pan.

Thanks man, good routine I will always go back to.