USB vs FireWire recording?

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 15 May 2007 8:35 pm

Will USB suffice if I'm only recording 2 or 3 tracks to GarageBand or ProTools LE?

And: the M-Box 2 is USB 1.1, is that going to cause glitches and problems vs USB 2.0? Am I better off getting FW in the M-Box 2 Pro?

Any opinions in general on the M-Box/ProTools LE combo on a MacBook with 2GB ram?

Anyone know much about the new Alesis I|O recording interface gizmos? They look great and spec great, wondering how they are in real life.

Thanks!

Will Holtz · Post by **Will Holtz** » 15 May 2007 9:10 pm

I actually wrote a post about this today on a recording message board. USB generally will work, but it has one big issue. Here is my copied text:

Be wary of any USB interface that is powered by the USB connection. The USB specs do not allow for much power. Some phantom powered microphones will draw more power than the USB connection can provide and this results in degraded performance. A USB interface with an additional power source should not suffer from this limitation.

There are two different phantom power specs 2mA and 10mA (DIN vs IEC) from a +/-48 volt set of rails. P=IV=0.010*(48*2)=960mW

The USB spec is 500mA from a single 5 volt rail. P=IV=0.5*5=2.5W

I can't find the Firewire spec, but I know it can provide several watts.

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 16 May 2007 12:05 am

I realise that it is not strictly what you asked, but it is worth mentioning that Pro Tools will recognise an external Firewire hard drive as an Audio volume, and you can record directly onto the external drive.
On the other hand, even with USB 2, you need to record to an internal drive first and then transfer the entire session folder to your external drive to take it away or back it up.
Pro Tools is very talented when it comes to losing files when you do this.
To answer your question- apart from the headphone sockets coming loose, we have never had a problem with any of our 25 USB M Boxes in the past five years, and I've never noticed any USB1 or USB2 issues.
Cheers
Dave

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 16 May 2007 1:44 am

I`ve recorded straight to a Maxtor USB 2 drive with a 002/G5 system without any problems. Worked just like a firewire drive would have. Just overdubs , though , max. 3 tracks simultaneously.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 16 May 2007 2:41 am

If you have US 2.0, it's a toss up and either should work.

I agree with Will on using devices that get their power form a USB port, as port power can be an issue. Make sure the external device you use has it's own power supply.

ADDED: I've seen several articles that suggest Firewire is losing support, on Windows PC's, since the introduction of USB 2.0. SoundBlaster used to include a Firewire port on their Audigy line of sound cards but that has been dropped in newer cards. Dell does not even offer an option for a firewire port on their new consumer PC's.

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 16 May 2007 2:57 am

Jack you nailed it. I bought a Dell last fall, ordered direct I had them make it powerful for recording and managing my visual art files.
it is indeed powerful. no compliants.
when getting stuff to record I found fast that there was no firewire port to hook into. that eliminated several audio interface brands.
I ended up with Lexicon Lambda. it is USB. it came bundled with Cubase.
so far it all runs as it is supposed to.
the only limits are mine.
interesting about the phantom power. the Lexicon device has it.I plug in a SM57 condenser. perhaps what you have pointed out explains why the mice signal is not up to snuff.
could I add a mixer into the process?
would that help the mic.?

Will Holtz · Post by **Will Holtz** » 16 May 2007 7:11 am

The SM57 is not a condenser, it is a dynamic microphone and does not utilize phantom power. Thus the USB power limitations should not effect you when recording with an SM57.

When using a condenser with your Lexicon Lambda, the addition of a pre-amp or mixer would be able to remove the phantom power limitation.

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 16 May 2007 7:56 am

um. yes indeed this SM 57 is acondenser that uses phantom power.
apparently there are two kinds of SM57; dynamic and mine, condenser. that is how it was sold. check any musicians friend or other catalog.

Will Holtz · Post by **Will Holtz** » 16 May 2007 8:38 am

Both the SM57 and SM57 Beta are dynamic microphones. I just triple checked this on Shure web site. Perhaps you are refering to the SM87 series?

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 16 May 2007 9:20 am

what do I know??? I went to Shure ,com and am informed.
I have an SM 57 'dynamic' mike. it ignores phantom power when it is applied.
I bought the mike being told it was a condenser. they misinformed me.
it is not a bad mike. glad to have one.

thanks for the information and education.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 16 May 2007 11:26 am

The SM57's are primarliy designed to be used for miking amps.

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 16 May 2007 3:52 pm

Jack, I am finding that out.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 17 May 2007 1:04 pm

Yea, some misinformation is somehow floating around out there. All SM57's, including the Beta series, are dynamic mic's. No question about it. SM81's and SM87's are examples of Shure's SM series condenser mic's. But the SM57 is, was, and will always be a dynamic mic. Rugged, reliable, and works great on lots of things. And like Jack mentioned, it has proven to be the most common and industry standard amp speaker mic, not to mention it's also the industry standard snare drum mic.

Brad

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 17 May 2007 1:40 pm

thanks Brad. this kind of information is important. clarification is good.
I feel a need to apologize as this thread got off topic.
sorry.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 18 May 2007 9:31 pm

What Brad said about the SM57.

Is, an always was, a dynamic.
It originally was a vocal mic,
companion to the Vocal master PA.
But was too breathy/poppy and the work-around
foam screen was fair and too fragile.

So they made the rugged SM58 and the 57's moved to amp micing.
Their use on snare is mostly stylistic and pretty common,
but surely not a definitive final choice.

As to USB 2 and Firewire.

For me the main issue is data throughput on any buss.
If you use a USB 2. interface with a wall wart,
or externally powered up, this will leave little load on the buss.

If you use a Firewrire interface, the same goes.

BUT if you use a Firewire interface for a lot of tracks,
try to use internal or USB 2 drives for storage and visa versa.

Trying to send several tracks back for monitoring
on the same buss while you record on it ALSO
is the road to latency and or buss overload.

If you can split your storage and I/O across busses
you are gonna have much smoother sessions.
and

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 19 May 2007 7:51 am

I had problems recording digital audio, and traced it to the use of a 4 port USB junction box. When I connected my interface direct to the computer's USB port, the problem went away. Those little junction boxes can't handle a digital audio stream too well.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 19 May 2007 8:43 am

Some can if they are powered ones.
Others can't.

If it is a USB 1 box on USB 2
I believe it will only pass USB 1.

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 23 May 2007 10:43 pm

Thanks for the input, guys.

Any other M-Box users (especially with Mac) with reports to file? Thanks for your feedback, Dave Boothroyd.